"They thought everything would be as before. Only the flag will be Russian". Interview with journalist Roman Bochkala

Сурган Олександра
·
11:50, 05 April
Image source: Суспільне Крим

Military correspondent Roman Bochkala was born in the town of Dzhankoy in Crimea. There he began working as a journalist. The last time he visited the peninsula was immediately after the escape of the ex-President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych. Roman and the film crew arrived in Crimea to find evidence of Yanukovych's escape and were caught at the beginning of the occupation of the Crimean peninsula by the Russian military. Bochkala now lives in Kyiv and is the coordinator of the Stop Corruption project.

About occupation

When was the last time you came to the semi-island, what was the mood there?

- Well, in fact, when I went to Crimea, I worked out the topic, prepared for the next broadcast, I then worked on the program "Details of the Week" on "Inter" and had to prepare material for the next Sunday. I remember well that on the same day I was in Mezhyhirya before, where activists worked with these archives (we are talking about Viktor Yanukovych's "black bookkeeping", documents that before his escape to Rostov-on-Don, he tried to drown in a pond in Mizhhiria). Literally on the same day, in the evening I already got on the train and went to Crimea. I did not stay in a hotel, because it is dangerous to stay in a hotel. This is always data registration, control, and I already had the experience of a military journalist and, in particular, visited such separatist, say, enclaves, territories that are not under the control of their states. These include Transnistria, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Kosovo.

When did you first realize that the situation in Crimea could lead to occupation?

- The first time I felt such an alarm bell was when we went to Kachu. Why in Kach, because there was information that Yanukovych escaped by plane from the Kachin military airfield. Where the Russian military base was located. And then, on the way from Simferopol to Sevastopol, I saw the first checkpoints. These were already such classic checkpoints, food, barbed wire. Most importantly, there were some obscure people who did not have any military or law enforcement status, but they already had weapons, they already had some special equipment and identified themselves with Russian flags. And they called themselves some formations still incomprehensible there. That's when it was a bit like everything I saw in other places, where the territory is out of control and what it leads to.

As I remember now, I had an acquaintance with the deputy head of the SBU of Crimea, his name was my namesake, Roman. And we contacted him sometimes. I was just in Simferopol and offered to meet. The next day we met and he said he was on vacation now. What vacation? Now? When does this happen? "You know, p - he says - I have an old injury, my knee hurts, I decided to treat". Then I realized that something was wrong. That is such a period people should not think about outdated injuries, but manage the situation.

Did you leave Crimea after the so-called "referendum"?

- Yes, I drove to Dzhankoi and told my relatives what would happen next. I was surprised that many of my acquaintances, my interlocutors, were really happy about this event and they had such a belief that everything will be as before. That we will all live in one country, that it will be such a neo-Soviet union, that we will visit each other, that everything will be the same as it was. Only the flag will be Russian.


Source: Suspilne Crimea 

About Crimea

You started your journalistic activity in Crimea, in the city of Dzhankoy. Tell us about your first job.

- It was "Channel 11" (I don't know if it exists now). I was 17 years old. I graduated from school, entered the correspondence form of study at the University. Vernadsky, and therefore I had a lot of free time. I then lived in Dzhanka and started looking for a job there. I loved football and, in fact, did not associate my whole life with journalism at that time. I was more interested in marketing, economic disciplines, but my passion for football led me to Channel 11, where I was offered to do my own sports program. At that time it was called the Russian "Sports Time". It was 2001.

By this time, a wave of Ukrainization had already begun in Crimea. When, for example, all the documentation had to be in Ukrainian. Why did the city TV channel have a Russian broadcaster?

- And not just a broadcaster on television. Even exams were taken in Russian in the Crimea. For example, when I was in university, I prepared very carefully for exams and adored geography. But I was given a four instead of a five because I didn't answer the additional question. The teacher asked me how many subjects the Russian Federation has. It would seem, what is it for? And why a Ukrainian student in Ukraine should know this. Unfortunately, fortunately, I did not know then and I do not know now how many subjects the Russian Federation has. I am even more sorry that the Russian Federation now calls the Autonomous Republic of Crimea one of such entities.

The former commander of US forces in Europe, Ben Hodges, said that Russia could try to capture the entire south of Ukraine. How realistic is this prospect?

- It is difficult for me to clearly focus on the percentage, but, I would say, quite high. I will say this: the worse the situation with water in Crimea, the better for Putin. It frees his hands to deal with a humanitarian catastrophe. You see, some time will pass and Russia will start playing cards in Russia, on its television, at the UN level, that through Ukraine Crimea is on the verge of a humanitarian catastrophe, an ecological catastrophe, that people may be left without water, without the basic element of life on Earth. This is something that will allow Putin to bring his hands here, God forbid, of course, another peacekeeping contingent to ensure. That is, they will not do it on some basis, you know, on the grounds that they are simply capturing Ukraine simply because they want to capture Ukraine. No, they will do it under the pretext that they have to provide Crimea with water. All.

Are you for or against the supply of water to the occupied Crimea by Ukraine?

- This is a very difficult question. And, in fact, the answer to it is a little different. Ukraine's problem is that we do not have a definite position on Crimea as an annexed territory. That is, if we recognize that it is annexed, well, we do, in principle, recognize it, then we must also determine what we do with the Ukrainians who are there. We either really give up Crimea completely and then, of course, we can't talk about water supply, something else. Or how, for example, Cyprus behaves. Northern Cyprus is also occupied. And, in fact, the Cypriot government recognizes this, but at the same time, there is free movement of people and those who live in northern Cyprus, they have EU passports provided by Cyprus, they do not have any travel bans, and there are no restrictions on resources of the occupied territory. But that's how they decided. What is their strategy?


Source: Suspilne Crimea 

About attacks due to journalistic activity

You were attacked in 2005 while working for the Dzhankoi newspaper Zarya Prysyvashya. What did you suffer then?

- I have two guesses. First: I made exposing materials. At the time, no one in the regional editorial office, in which the employees were about 50 plus, had heard about journalistic investigations. It was interesting to me, so I started working on the topic of active business - it's a ferrous metal, all over Dzhanka there were reception points for this metal. And the subject of my investigation was that at that time the police were still "covering up" this business illegally.

Once I passed the regional department because I always went to work on foot, and Dzhankoy is a small town. And passing by the regional department, I met Chief Kucheryavy (we are talking about Andriy Kucheryavy, at the time of 2005, he held the position of Chief of the Dzhankoi Police Department, now the head of the Sakha Council of Veterans of the Russian Interior Ministry in the occupied Crimea - ed.). He then threatened me again, saying: "you will write to me, you will play to me." I didn't take these threats very seriously then, although I heard from some people later that I shouldn't be interested in them. And I have already started to be interested and it turned out that there are many questions to the VBNON (Department for Combating Illicit Drug Trafficking - ed.), That is, it was, is and, probably, unfortunately, will be such a classic feeding trough for police officers. When, after the beating, I was examined by doctors, the chief traumatologist approached me and said quietly: “You were beaten with police batons. I see it in the nature of the injuries". My arm and knee were broken.

Didn't you see the attackers?

- I didn't see it because I got into a taxi in the front seat. And when we analyzed it, we realized that someone was just sitting behind. I got in a taxi and just fell asleep. When I woke up, I was out of town, just in the field. It was the night before Christmas. We handed over a holiday number. If I hadn't woken up, I would have just frozen, because it was snowing, it was cold and I had bilateral pneumonia after that. Strictly speaking, if I lay there for another half an hour or an hour, I would not wake up.

And what is the second version of the cause of the attack?

- The second was when I supported the Orange Revolution. There were few of us in the city. I wore an orange scarf then, and when I came to the university, they even tried to strangle me with this scarf, right inside the university. And the students did it and so sincerely, they say, as you could wear it, we will tighten it on you, just like a stranglehold. But I am more inclined to the first reason.

How many attacks have you been attacked during all your journalistic activities in Ukraine?

- I think up to ten cases.

You are one of the first and few journalists to have won a lawsuit under Article №171 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine (“Obstruction of the lawful professional activity of journalists”). What kind of story was that?

- I was then investigating the torture of people in the Vinnytsia region. There, one local farmer created from some local peasants just slaves who worked for him on chains, literally. I then felt all the norms and rules that took place there. And when we just arrived and started filming, he started throwing stones, pushing, beating the cameraman. This is, in general, a kind of behaviour of a person incomprehensible. Although the man was actually conscious, he was just used to behaving like that. And because it was so brazen and it was recorded on video, and we went through all the necessary steps to properly qualify it, and in the end, we won the lawsuit.

Your case is the exception rather than the rule. Why does this article hardly work in modern Ukraine?

- This article is not only responsible for violators, it has all the qualification requirements that a journalist must meet. For example, before asking a question, he must state that he is a journalist. That then the violator didn't say: «and I didn't know that it is the journalist. So what, that he has a camera in his hands? So what, that he has a microphone of some TV channel”? So be sure to show your ID, name yourself, and then ask questions. In fact, these are the little things that always give violators the opportunity to avoid responsibility.

About a trip to North Korea

Did you go to Russia to get a visa to North Korea?

- No, I submitted the documents online. I would not go to Russia, at least now it is dangerous. I was very surprised to learn that all the necessary documents can simply be sent online. And I was even more surprised when I was granted a tourist visa to this country.

In North Korea, you shot material for a documentary, "Planet of the DPRK." You shot most of the shots in a covert way. How did you manage to save them, because in this country every tourist is under the constant supervision of a guide?

- Yes, I was constantly under surveillance, not even undercover. Easier, because technologically North Koreans are a little behind. Those who talk about their super security services, the various organizations that monitor people, should understand that technically they are not very equipped. They do not use the Internet, they at that time almost did not know what a smartphone is. It was 2017. At that time, they used the usual "Nokia" buttons. I had an iPhone then and they didn't know, for example, that there is a function that deleted files can be recovered. It helped me several times. I made videos, then just deleted them, and then restored them. Or, for example, they do not understand what a selfie is.

When, for example, I had to take military or something forbidden, I filmed it and told them that I was taking a selfie. The most important part of covert shooting is not to shoot covertly. I never hid the phone anywhere, they always saw it. I didn't do anything like that for the first couple of days. They got used to me, I got used to them, I studied their behaviour, they are mine.


Source: Suspilne Crimea 

About "Stop Corruption"

Did you create StopCor in 2014?

- I think later. About five years ago, as a result of the Revolution of Dignity that took place, the reforms were not carried out the way they should have been carried out.

Is this project more about human rights or journalism?

- This is both the first and the second. Why? Because this is a collaboration of people who are interested in changes in the society so that the level of corruption is significantly reduced. When we started, it was a local organization in the Kyiv region. As a matter of fact, at that time it was not an organization, it was an informal public association that united different people, including me, because I am a journalist, my contribution to the fight against corruption could be journalistic. It's about different things, but also about the first and the second.

For what reasons did the international organization, GIJN, which takes care of journalists, rule out the corruption of its list? (This is the Global Network of Investigative Journalism, which is "an international association of non-profit organizations that support, promote and conduct investigative journalism" - ed.).

- We just analyzed this situation, at first we did not meet the criteria that are actually determined by this organization. Therefore, it was a public organization that was essentially journalistic, your previous question is about that. If we had actually been registered as an editorial office, we would not have had any questions. And the questions arose because in fact we were engaged not only in journalism but also in public life. Therefore, we did not actually meet the criteria of this organization.

The Stop Corruption project has been accused of commissioned materials several times, how can you comment on that?

- Of course, no money is taken for the materials, but there are usually donations (donations - ed.), There are people who, in fact, support the organization. This is true and it applies to various public organizations. And as for… you know, there is such a law of physics - the force of action determines the force of counteraction, and the more you do, the more stones fly at you.

Recently, information appeared on the social network that Stop Corruption is cooperating with Volodymyr Muntyan. Tell me, does he also make donations to the organization? (We are talking about the self-proclaimed apostle, the founder of one of the largest religious sectarian organizations in Ukraine, which is positioned as a Protestant - Spiritual Center "Renaissance" - ed.).

- By no means. This is absolutely undisguised information.

Does the Stop Corruption project produce materials on Crimean issues?

- A few months ago there was such a story related to a businessman from Mykolayiv. Journalists found that he was engaged in shipping. That he has a company registered in the Crimea, it seems, in Kerch, which pays taxes there. And that, in fact, he is engaged in covert economic activity in the occupied Crimea. I can't say that we deal with Crimea in a specialized way, but from time to time, when there is a relevant topic, we, of course, also raise it.